Talk:Eve
Cecilia Shouldn't we put Cecilia under unnamed maternal aunt, since the books say that was Selene's sisters name? Hybrid Pregnancy. Who knew that hybrids could get pregnant. I wouldn't ever guess that. Dragonfly82 (talk) 16:38, February 4, 2013 (UTC) Well Eve hasn't gotten pregnant yet. If you are talking about her birth, it's possible Selene is more of an enhanced vampire than a hybrid, that's how she got pregnant and gave birth to Eve. DarkRobin (talk) 17:53, February 4, 2013 (UTC) :In nature, hybrids are always sterile. Michael never should have been able to impregnate Selene at all, but that's Hollywood logic. [[User:AlessaGillespie|''AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 22:52, February 4, 2013 (UTC) I disagree with you AlessaGillespie, well Michael getting Selene pregnant is nothing that new, considering that Lucian has already got Sonja pregnant, despite that Sonja's pregnancy didn't went through the way. So Selene isn't really that much different from Sonja, as both of them had Victor's blood going through their veins. And hybrids or full breed aren't always sterile. They are about to have sex, so why not getting pregnant for that matter either. Dragonfly82 (talk) 16:31 February 8, 2013 (UTC) :I'm talking about creatures that are hybrids, not two pure blooded species mating. In nature, most hybrids are sterile. An example is the liger, a combination of a tiger and a lion. There have only been a handful of ligers that have ever been capable of reproducing, and not one single male liger has ever been shown to NOT be sterile. It's the same for tiglons, mules and yattle - all hybrids whose female members rarely reproduce, and whose males have never been known to have any offspring. Lucian could have impregnated anyone because he wasn't a hybrid, nor was Sonja a hybrid. Their child, on the other hand, should have been sterile, just as Michael should be. Selene, on the other hand, isn't a cross of two different species, and even if she was, she's female, so there would still be a small chance she could reproduce. That's the point I was making. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 02:18, February 9, 2013 (UTC) :Well the franchise is based on science fiction. Plus, Lycans and Vampires, and the Hybrids of these species aren't exactly ''natural. So it's not a big leap that their hybrids can reproduce.DarkRobin (talk) 07:13, February 9, 2013 (UTC) ::For a series where the creators have continuously bragged about how they're bringing reality and science to the concept of Vampires and Werewolves, it is a big leap. But everybody knows Eve was only added as an excuse to make Underworld 4 all about Selene again, so... I mean, why else would they have Selene getting pregnant only 6 months after meeting Michael, when both of their species are basically infertile as it is. The series has always been clear that Vampire and Werewolf pregnancies almost never happen, which means there's super low fertility for pure members of each species. Then you get a hybrid, and it just makes no sense that he would ever be able to impregnate anyone, especially in such a short time span. Even in the film's universe, it's a borderline plothole, because it just doesn't add up. [[User:AlessaGillespie|''AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 07:19, February 9, 2013 (UTC) ::You have a point, again, still, no matter how much science they put or don't put into the series, it is still fictional, most things there are theortical. There may be one thing that can explain Eve's conception. Her parents, Michael and Selene are the only Immortals parents that both carry the Corvinus strain rather than just its mutated version(the Lycan and vampire virus). Michael carry the dormant strain while Selene received the active strain from Alexander Corvinus himself. This maybe what made it possible for Michael to impregnate Selene, although their strains are tainted. DarkRobin (talk) 07:37, February 9, 2013 (UTC) :::Oh yes, I know it's technically allowed because it's a fictional setting, I just still find it silly. I think a point against the idea that having the Corvinus Strain helps reproduction is Marcus. He's been alive for something like 1600 years, and yet has no children. It's less clear if William could have sired any litters, but it's a good bet he couldn't if his twin was unable to. Alexander, however, certainly could reproduce, which suggests that the very nature of the Vampire and Werewolf viruses makes one near infertile. Michael has both viruses, and Selene has the Vampire virus. So you're correct that it's doable in a science fiction setting, but I still roll my eyes at the thought of how far they've strayed from their own lore. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 07:46, February 9, 2013 (UTC) :::Their lore has always been in a state of flux. In the first movie, they had Singe talked about theory about hybridization, which supposedly required a pure source of the Corinvus Strain. But Marcus's hybridization at the end of the movie proved that's not the case, which is also mentioned in the novelization of Evolution that Marcus's transformation proved Singe wrong (ironically too as it's his blood that hybridized Marcus). As for Marcus not having children, we don't know that fore certain, for all we know a son or a descendant of Marcus could pop up anytime, or he simply didn't find anyone he'd want to procreate with. Since Selene's entire pregancy was skipped, we don't have much to go on to even speculate its nature. DarkRobin (talk) 08:09, February 9, 2013 (UTC) ::::There's no evidence that Marcus ever had children, and you would think it would be mentioned somewhere if that had ever been intended to be part of canon. If he's that old and is fertile, he'd have MUCH more than just an heir or two, even with his 200 year spans of hibernation. It doesn't make much sense that there wouldn't be an accidental pregnancy or 20 during a lifespan that long, even if he was consciously deciding not to impregnate anyone. Not to mention, a bunch of heirs could have been used to keep an eye on Viktor while Marcus hibernated. These heirs would be immensely powerful and well known amongst the species, given statements made is ROTL about how celebrated pure blooded births are. Yet, not one single character reflects on a child of Marcus, including Marcus himself, in either the films or the novelizations (the non-canon Blood Enemy doesn't count). It just doesn't add up to claim Marcus may be fertile when there's no evidence of it at all, and he just happens to be a member of a species known for being basically sterile. No matter how you look at it, Selene becoming pregnant with Eve so quickly is silly and stretches the suspension of disbelief. If they had said it happened in the lab during fertility experiments undertaken by Antigen, that would be different, but the special features say she was already naturally pregnant when she was captured. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 05:19, February 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::Why would there be accidental pregnancy if Marcus was consciously deciding not to impregnate anyone? In the novelization of Evolution, Tanis explained Viktor and his followers undercut Marcus's authority in the coven, maybe Viktor also made effort to ensure Marcus would have no heir in other to diminish his power. One of the few things they made clear about Marcus was that freeing William was his main goal for centuries, maybe he thought about nothing else(besides his hatred toward Viktor), no to mention procreation. Again, Selene and Michael are kind of uniqe pair of Immortal species. They and Eve are unprecedented, just because other Immortals have almost zero chance of reproduction, that doesn't mean they can't. Alexander did say Selene was going to become "The future," perhaps that included being able to bring future generations into the world no other before her could. DarkRobin (talk) 17:36, February 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Most men can't even go 3 decades without an accidental pregnancy under their belt, and Marcus was alive for 16 centuries, many of those centuries being before effective birth control was created. The only other option would be that he didn't have sex at all, which is just as unbelievable as him somehow not creating an accidental pregnancy for 1600 years. It's way over the top to say he was too focused on William to have sex. Even Selene, who spent all her time tracking and killing Lycans (an enemy she could deal with, whereas Marcus could do exactly nothing about William), had slept with several men in the past, and she was a lot younger than Marcus. All evidence points directly to him being infertile - from his lack of children to the fact that the entire species created in his image were largely sterile. I just don't see how it fits that two infertile species suddenly created a kid within a matter of months. It's Hollywood logic, not any kind of real world sense. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 21:19, February 10, 2013 (UTC) ::::::Your logic is Marcus had to have sex with someone at some point, that we can only agree to disagree. As far as hybrid pregnancy goes, maybe it requires the partners to have something in common, a blood-likeness. Some people speculated Sonja and Lucian could procreate because they are both Pure-born Immortals. And we know what Michael and Selene have in common in terms of blood. DarkRobin (talk) 06:52, February 11, 2013 (UTC) :::::: :::::::Yes, we will have to agree to disagree, because I just don't see even an iota of logic or sense in the idea that he never had sex with anyone ever. It's just not realistic in the least. Viktor also had a child, but he's not a pure born, so that throws the pure born procreation speculation right out the window. The simple fact in the series is that the entire species is basically sterile, with a few random instances of pregnancy happening here and there. It's possible to claim that Sonja inherited a stronger fertility than most from her parents, since they were one of the few to reproduce. However, being pure borns wouldn't have squat to do with reproduction. The same with the idea of "common blood". That does not stand up to what is known of reproduction. Sterility is sterility, no matter who you mate with. A male liger can be mated with a lion, tiger, other liger, bird, or fish, and will never reproduce, no matter how many matings occur. This is because male hybrids in nature are always sterile, without any exceptions. It would be possible that Selene might get lucky enough to reproduce at some point, but Michael should be as sterile as a hospital countertop. Marcus couldn't reproduce, both of the species Michael is part of are almost entirely sterile, and male hybrids have never been known to reproduce, so there is simply nothing even approaching logic in the decision to give Selene and Michael a naturally born child, especially in such a short time span, which suggests Michael is quite fertile. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie]] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 09:27, February 11, 2013 (UTC) :::::::Viktor wasn't a Pure-born, but Sonja was, so was Lucian. It seems they didn't have trouble in the reproduction department as the contents of the novelization of Rise of the Lycans suggests the sex scene in the movie is the first(maybe the only) time they had sex. :::::::As Michael's fertility goes, as I mentioned before, Vampires and Lycans aren't natural species, so we can't simply put the natural biological limition of other species on them. Besides, Michael's status or existence as a hybrid wasn't natural to begin with, it was through infection, unlike male ligers that were given birth by living male lions and female tigers(or tigress). We don't know how this would influence Michael's fertility. DarkRobin (talk) 09:58, February 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::It's not possible that the sex scene was the first time they had sex, because there is no way Sonja could have known she was pregnant 2 days after conception. Even in this day of over-the-counter pregnancy tests, that's still not possible, yet alone back then. There are no symptoms of pregnancy that early on. Regardless of how Michael became a Hybrid, it changed his biological makeup to the point of making him a separate species, and both species he came from are pretty much infertile. That means it's a huge stretch of suspension of disbelief to claim he could impregnate anyone, even a fertile human. That he impregnated another member of a near-infertile species in less time than some humans can get pregnant just makes it even more unbelievable. [[User:AlessaGillespie|AlessaGillespie'']] Talk 05:03, October 26, 2009 (UTC) 11:34, February 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::Don't forget you are talking about fictional species. For all we know their idea is Lycan-Vampire hybrids are actually more fertile than Lycans and Vampires alone. If they established Vampires are nearly infertile, they didn't talk much about the Lycans in that department. I recall in the novelization of the first movie, Michael saw what can only be assumed as female Lycans breast-feeding a wolf-like baby. And in the novelization of Rise of the Lycans, when Lucian was born, Viktor's thoughts in seeing the baby includes that Werewolves do breed. And given the sheer numbers of the Werewolves that appeared in the final battle of the prequel movie, many Werewolves must have been bred and turned over the centuries, implying they are quite fertile. One can only guess how the fertility of the Lycans the species that came from them would be like. Maybe becoming a hybrid also allow Michael to inherit that fertility, or possibly enhanced. It may not make sense with science of the real world, but they exist in a fictional world, nothing makes perfect sense there. If it did, hybrids may actually be weaker than Vampires and Lycans in the overall sense. Ligers may be bigger than either Lions and tigers, but they are too big to be fast enough to hunt for themselves, they might never survive in the wild. But in Underworld franchise, hybrids are more powerful than their parent species in just about every aspect DarkRobin (talk) 12:27, February 11, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::I don't know if it's mentioned in the previous posts (definitely tl;dr) but Michael wasn't born a hybrid. He was infected by two different species rather than being genetically created by two different species. Perhaps, in Underworld, this is the same thing, but my logic is that since he's not 'true' hybrid, he's still quite fertile. I don't know how Selene got pregnant of course. She was a normal vampire when it could have happened, so by all means the pregnancy would be something short of a miracle. So, that part may be a bit silly, but Michael being fertile may not be. Eve being fertile however, would dissolve my logic. Sterility is caused by chromosomal difference. Assuming that Vampires and Lycans have the same amount of chromosomes, they may produce fertile offspring. The Lonicera fly is an insect species which may have originated with hybridisation as well as the red wolf. Even the European Bison may have originated as a Hybrid. So to say 'no exceptions' might be a bit carried away. But I just killed them. I didn't pay much attention to their anatomy. Vimereth (talk) 08:29, January 16, 2017 (UTC) Or maybe Lycans and Vampires are like wolves and dogs, which can interbreed and produce fertile offspring.--Hulk10 (talk) 01:33, November 14, 2016 (UTC) Lastname Is Eve's lastname Corvin? Dragonfly82 (talk) 20:12, December 17, 2015 (UTC)